extrapenguin | Canon Acquisition Report

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Canon Acquisition Report

Reads
Children of Ruin, by Adrian Tchaikovsky
A sequel to Children of Time. Thematically similar in very many respects, though I think I liked the spiders more than the octopodes. The critters of Nod were intriguing, and one of them especially felt like it belonged in an Alastair Reynolds novel. The ending was both more heartwarming and less apt than that of Children of Time. The epilogue, OTOH, was much too far in the future to feel ... good, IMO. I think this is it for the series – the epilogue sort of removed space from sequels – but I'm definitely requesting this for Yuletide, and perhaps next WBEX, if I have time to participate.

TBR pile: The Luminous Dead. The Monster Baru Cormorant.

Watches
I watched 13 episodes of The Untamed and quit. I'd read the original novel and had some issues and id mismatches with it, so the fact that the series changed things was a bonus. I did enjoy a bunch of the changes – Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji being actual friends in the past, the new yin iron plot – but it still had the problem of Lan Wangji being absolutely fucking boring. (No, I do not care if he suddenly develops expressions beyond "please direct me to the laxatives" in the penultimate episode.) In addition, the actors weren't good-looking enough, Lan Wangji's especially, and I could not deal with the CGI. Then came episode 13 and they took the absolute worst possible interpretation of Yu Ziyuan and made it show canon and I just couldn't. I'd already had enough trying to discuss the Lotus Pier with people only for them to declare Jiang Fengmian innocently misunderstood and project all of their mommy issues onto Yu Ziyuan; I had zero interest in engaging with an adaptation that made her look worse. (The changes to Yu Ziyuan and Jiang Fengmian are also part of the reason I ragequit the donghua, in addition to loathing Wei Wuxian's character design and the way he was nerfed.) Then came the revelations about Xiao Zhan being an asshole and his team getting AO3 banned in China, and I just couldn't engage anymore. I think I might've been able to persevere had I not known via the novel what was coming, but ... no. I have much better things to do with my time. (I also can't shake off the residual bitterness that I was in the fandom back in 2018, but no-one cared back then, and everyone's only coming in when I've left.)

I'm currently 6 episodes into Motherland: Fort Salem. It has canon F/F, and the premise is that the military consists exclusively/mainly of witches, who are all women, so I get lots of women in uniform! Like all US TV, it's mumblecore and the color grading equivalent of mumblecore, which makes me really grateful for the dubbing, subs, and lack of hatred for the color green found in cdramas. It's 10 episodes long, 9 of which are out. The plot and worldbuilding are intriguing, and there is copious eye candy (oh hi Alder, oh hi Scylla, oh hi Abigail's cousin), even if I wish the actresses had bulked up a bit. My biggest complaint is the fact that there is het there. (Turns out my greatest desires include lack of het?)

To watch: I've heard good things about 沙海/Tomb of the Sea (note: eng title is a mistranslation) the TV series that's a prequel to a drama Zhu Yilong will be starring in. I might watch that if I can find it.

Rewatches
I've been rewatching Guardian with

glymr et al! It's more of a discussion thing, but here's some things people brought up:
- When Zhao Yunlan in ep 2 tells Shen Wei he thinks they've met before, he doesn't actually think so, he's just fishing for information from Shen Wei, because Shen Wei's reaction to meeting him was so strong.
- Shen Wei seems to have completely shut down Zhu Hong's hypnotism – after the hypnotism attempt in the mountains, she doesn't use it on anyone, though she does tear a leaf from Ye Zun's book and use her powers to rip the life straight out of Mi Lu later on.
I've also introduced more people to the concepts of Shen Wei's catch and release program, prize cabbages, and the very important canon moment of episode 2, where Guo Changcheng hugs kitty Da Qing.

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I was in the fandom back in 2018, but no-one cared back then

lol, that happened to me with Teen Wolf. I got into the show before it became A Thing. But then it all went to shit anyway, so.....

I guess here the deciding point was the live action. I admit the novel translation has a fair bit of clunkiness, but it seems that the vast majority of people aren't interested in becoming fannish about book canons, and a live action with appropriately hot dudes was required before the winds of popularity could blow its way. (And it's now a megafandom, which means I want nothing to do with it, lol.) ...yeah, I'm grumpy.

it still had the problem of Lan Wangji being absolutely fucking boring.
SOMEBODY SAID IT. I thought it was just me. I really don't want to complain about characters my friends love, but...no personality detected. :/ "Strong silent type" isn't really my thing, I guess.

When Zhao Yunlan in ep 2 tells Shen Wei he thinks they've met before, he doesn't actually think so, he's just fishing for information from Shen Wei, because Shen Wei's reaction to meeting him was so strong.
Agreed! I think he thinks Shen Wei thinks they've met before and he's just tossing stuff out to try to get data on why that would be. (You would absolutely never guess, my dude.) ...I'm missing out on stuff by not attending these rewatches; they sound fun, but they're inconveniently timed, and also, people talking? on mics? while an episode is playing?? aaaaa????

SOMEBODY SAID IT. I thought it was just me. I really don't want to complain about characters my friends love, but...no personality detected. :/
It's not just you! Lan Wangji could be replaced by a lamp with a post-it note that says "sexy" taped on it and nothing would change about his personality. *g*

...I'm missing out on stuff by not attending these rewatches; they sound fun, but they're inconveniently timed, and also, people talking? on mics? while an episode is playing?? aaaaa????
I'm sure you could set up a night-owls rewatch that's at [something PM] your time! There's room for lots of them! ~~Make it so late that I can wake up on Saturday morning and attend!~~ A lot of it is people chatting about miscellanea, especially this week for the "main"/later rewatch, but there are cool canon observations that float up as well. Like the fishing. And I'm sure I've forgotten something else cool. I shared my timeline observations? Anyway. Some people are participating via text chat while the episode plays, instead of voice chat, but I can see that if the timing is awkward that wouldn't work for you, either. Mostly I'm using it for casual canon reminders and chattery with people in the lead-up.

Lan Wangji could be replaced by a lamp with a post-it note that says "sexy" taped on it and nothing would change about his personality.
lmao uh yes. It bums me out, because I really do love Wei Wuxian, most of the time.

I wish I was technologically and socially equipped to host watch parties in a different time slot, but, well. I'm not there yet, at any rate. If I can carve away the time to attend this week, maybe I'll try to join via text chat and see how that goes.

lmao uh yes. It bums me out, because I really do love Wei Wuxian, most of the time.
Opinion twins! \o/ Samesies! Uh, yeah, it bums me too. I guess I'm more into the fandom than you are, in the sense that I can write it, but I'm not into the main ship at all.

If I can carve away the time to attend this week, maybe I'll try to join via text chat and see how that goes.
Welcome! I hope you manage to get it working.

I was into MDZS at the end of 2018. Is the fandom really that much bigger now?

I got into the donghua first, then read the novel, so I didn't have an issue with the adaptation. The fandom is what killed it for me. Such ...passionate... fans. I actually swore off fandom for a few months because of all the hate I saw. (And then I fell into Guardian and that's been wonderful. <3)

I have zero intention of trying to watch the live action version.

In addition, the actors weren't good-looking enough, Lan Wangji's especially
Oh god, I feel so validated. Thank you! I thought I was the only one who didn't like their looks.

The book is full of epithets about how pretty LWJ is and then: WIB with that wig....... just... nothanks

...When I think about MDZS/MXTX I always lament how I haven't seen anyone write something like a comparative analysis between MDZS and SVSSS. I feel there's food for thought there, like maybe MXTX was trying to make some kind of point, but can't do anything about it myself because I can't force myself to sit through SVSSS, since it really rubs me the wrong way.

The fandom is what killed it for me. Such ...passionate... fans. I actually swore off fandom for a few months because of all the hate I saw.
LOL, so euphemistic! But yeah, even back in December 2017, when cnovels were supremely niche, that fandom was where sanity went to die. Now it's a megafandom with all the megafandom problems of wanking in numbers, and it's still a place where sanity and good sense go to die. And the fandom is very ... monomaniac. And full of teenagers.

And then I fell into Guardian and that's been wonderful. <3
<3 Guardian is lovely!

I thought I was the only one who didn't like their looks.
Xiao Zhan and his styling are reasonably similar-ish to how I envisioned Wei Wuxian (unlike the donghua, which makes him too precious and uke-y), but it's more like an 80% to 90% match, and Wang Yibo just ... doesn't work. At all.

I always lament how I haven't seen anyone write something like a comparative analysis between MDZS and SVSSS. I feel there's food for thought there, like maybe MXTX was trying to make some kind of point, but can't do anything about it myself because I can't force myself to sit through SVSSS, since it really rubs me the wrong way.
I haven't seen one, either, though I guess that with the size of the fandoms surely someone must've written something? But probably on Twitter so it's a 182-tweet chain and no-one can ever find it again. Or Tumblr at best.

I guess that with the size of the fandoms surely someone must've written something?
That's also what I'm thinking. But I can also see how/why such a post might not gain popularity.

I don't remember enough about the books to speak with much intelligence, but here's where I'd start the comparison:

In SVSSS, SQQ, the scumvillain, throws LBH in the, uh, Hell pit. They then become lovers? I don't know if LBH learns about the transmigration. [Insert paragraphs on character identity and body switching.]
In MDZS, Wen Chao throws WWX in the Hell pit, then WWX kills Wen Chao.
So to draw a comparison and conclusion between these points, for a moment, a hated character (Wen Chao) needs to be considered as a... potential lover? Pros and cons. Ethics. Morals. That's SO PROBLEMATIC!!!1!1!! Anyone who dares entertain this thought is a terrible person. (sarcasm)

[Insert OP getting hate and ultimately deleting themselves off the internet.]

Sorry, this is vastly off-topic from your post. Maybe I'm bitter than I couldn't enjoy myself more with these books.

Edit: added sarcasm tag because I forgot it when I posted

Edited 2020-05-16 20:55 (UTC)

So to draw a comparison and conclusion between these points, for a moment, a hated character (Wen Chao) needs to be considered as a... potential lover? Pros and cons. Ethics. Morals. That's SO PROBLEMATIC!!!1!1!! Anyone who dares entertain this thought is a terrible person. (sarcasm)
Oo, I don't think I have seen any meta like this! But tbh I'd read the canon divergence AU where Wei Wuxian turns up more powerful than ever and tops Wen Chao. Mostly because it'd be absolutely hilarious, and the wangxian monoshippers would explode.

Sorry, this is vastly off-topic from your post. Maybe I'm bitter than I couldn't enjoy myself more with these books.
Ranting about MDZS is always on-topic! And yeah, I'm bitter about the books too.

When Zhao Yunlan in ep 2 tells Shen Wei he thinks they've met before, he doesn't actually think so, he's just fishing for information from Shen Wei, because Shen Wei's reaction to meeting him was so strong.

That's in episode 1 (34:12)? And I thought it was mostly fishing, too, but at the beginning of ep 2, he remembers that exchange, then says to himself, "Where did I see you before?" as if he's really wondering...

Glad

glymr's Guardian watch is going well. I don't tend to like distractions when I watch things, but I tried to drop by yesterday -- except I was half an hour late for the later session, and five minutes in I managed to break Discord to the point where I couldn't do anything. *facepalm* (Shen Wei would sympathise.)

No, there was a similar exchange in episode 2 as well, with Zhao Yunlan fishing. I know this was ep 2 because I wasn't there for ep 1, and I was present when the fishing was brought up while Zhao Yunlan was talking to Shen Wei.

I don't tend to like distractions when I watch things, but I tried to drop by yesterday -- except I was half an hour late for the later session, and five minutes in I managed to break Discord to the point where I couldn't do anything. *facepalm* (Shen Wei would sympathise.)
Timezones! The bane of fankind. And, uh, Discord is ... Discord. Technology is nice except when it breaks.

Motherland: Fort Salem has been a surprise hit for me. It helps that I ship Raelle/Scylla so hard.

There are so many shippable women, in addition to the canon ship! Though I think I'm waiting for episode 10 before I have any serious ship opinions. (Other than not being into het. *g*)

though she does tear a leaf from Ye Zun's book and use her powers to rip the life straight out of Mi Lu later on
I always think of that moment as Zhu Hong getting her own back for everything she's been put through so far over thirty-odd episodes, from being tied up and strangled (the red dress thing) to having Shen Wei lay compulsions on her with hypnotism (sort of) to the dream thing... all neatly packaged in five seconds of magical violence. Sorry, Mi Lu.

(I have been sticking to fic for The Untamed/MDZS without ever venturing into any of the canons; Guardian is the great exception for me as far as getting into visual canons go, I usually just don't. While you're so right that as a sort-of megafandom MDZS etc. is full of terrible stuff, the 80% rule applies and there are some terrific writers in there as well, and some stuff which is objectively really bad but still a lot of fun to read...)

I always think of that moment as Zhu Hong getting her own back for everything she's been put through so far over thirty-odd episodes, from being tied up and strangled (the red dress thing) to having Shen Wei lay compulsions on her with hypnotism (sort of) to the dream thing... all neatly packaged in five seconds of magical violence. Sorry, Mi Lu.
Yeah, that's an apt comparison. And given canon events, it's perhaps closer to "Sorry not sorry, Mi Lu." :P

I must confess I've never really been able to get into fic without getting into the canon (either before touching fic or as a result of reading 5 fics). And 80% crap is a very generous reading of Sturgeon's Law – I don't think I've come across crap percentages below 90% or 99%. ("90% of everything is crap.")

Then came the revelations about Xiao Zhan being an asshole and his team getting AO3 banned in China, and I just couldn't engage anymore.Collapse

It's of course entirely up to you how you feel about The Untamed, but just to let you know that this is a misrepresentation of the facts. Some of his very crazy fans did some very crazy things that led ot AO3 being banned, yes, but he had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

I'm really enjoying the Guardian re-watches. :)

In mainland China, the BNFs of an actor's fandom have direct ties to the actor's promo team, and get instructions from them. There is evidence that the BNFs stirred up the fandom on instructions of the promo team. So yes, he had lots to do with it. I dug out some reportage – a lot of it was conducted over chat/forum posts, but here are some broad primers/reports/evidence:

Reddit recap with in-depth background on Chinese fan culture
Presentation with receipts (in Chinese)

tl;dr: I wouldn't have taken The Untamed up again anyway, but this means I won't take up any Xiao Zhan drama ever. No, you can't change my mind.

Thank you for the links. Having been in a Japanese idol fandom for the last 12 years, I have picked up a lot about how Asian fandoms work and particuarly about the crazy in Korean and Chinese idol fandom (not that things are that much less crazy in Japan) - so the information in the top one isn't news to me; I interpret it differently from you.

As for the second one - yes, have come across that kind of thing before, too. Sad. (Caveat: I can't read all of the Chinese.)

Don't worry, I have no intention of trying to change your mind. :)

From what I've gleaned, Chinese idol fandom is just as crazy as the Korean one, but even more driven to strip the profits out of the fans. And there's precedent of idols telling their fans to back off, which Xiao Zhan did not do at all, even when the shitstorm rose to epic proportions.

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Canon Acquisition Report

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