Homophobia in Haixing

[extrapenguin]

If I were to write a Guardian fic the point of which was something completely unrelated to homophobia, but which ended with Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan getting a happily ever after, what level of societal homophobia would not throw you out of the story? Would you find it jarring if they dared hold hands in public? If they dared kiss? If they introduced each other as romantic partners in casual-ish conversation without too much euphemism? Their nearest and dearest would know, and marriage wouldn't be on the table anyway, but ... what is the range of attitudes that wouldn't have the readership's suspension of disbelief come crashing down?

On the one hand, I want this to be happily-ever-after dancing on roses without a cloud in sight; on the other, a lot of the relationship developments of canon make more sense if Haixing is at least somewhat homophobic. So: advice?

Comments

[trobadora]

if there is inequity in the fic to the same degree, then it's canon-compliant, yes?

Yes, entirely agreed! I think the problem arises when you go and have someone state outright what can never be stated in canon, because then you have to extrapolate the reaction. And then you have to judge what's still canon-compliant, what doesn't jive with the canonical silence (because if there were no consequences for breaking the silence, the silence would have no reason to exist) and what's going too far on the too-blatant homophobia front ...

/my take

[jo_lasalle]

I think the problem arises when you go and have someone state outright what can never be stated in canon, because then you have to extrapolate the reaction. And then you have to judge what's still canon-compliant, what doesn't jive with the canonical silence (because if there were no consequences for breaking the silence, the silence would have no reason to exist) and what's going too far on the too-blatant homophobia front

I think this is a great way of putting the dilemma. (And what makes me kind of meandering-unsure-gut-feeling-IDK-what-I-would-do-either.)

[trobadora]

It's really difficult in the abstract! I could probably argue something for a specific scenario, but in general ... yeah. I don't know either.

[jo_lasalle]

Your thing really helped me figure out what I meant with being "jarred" in my own comment** - because it's really not that I need more homophobia in my fic or anything, but in that judgement of how to extrapolate from the silence, something like "Shen Wei and ZYL get married and it's completely normal and issue-free" is a very strong call. Not a wrong call, but very strong, much like going wildly in the other direction would be. So it's like, sit-up-and-notice, for me.

**And I'm not saying that you're saying the same thing I'm saying, just that your point here made me figure out my own thing better.

[extrapenguin]

I think the problem arises when you go and have someone state outright what can never be stated in canon, because then you have to extrapolate the reaction. And then you have to judge what's still canon-compliant, what doesn't jive with the canonical silence (because if there were no consequences for breaking the silence, the silence would have no reason to exist) and what's going too far on the too-blatant homophobia front ...
Yes, this! I'd argue that even going into the characters' heads, as is typical in prose narration, requires going into at least characters' expectations for what could/would happen if they were (more) out about their relationship. Basically, all those implicit calculations have to be made explicit.

[rheasilvia]

Yes, exactly, to both of this! :-) And since narrative fiction works differently from film, the authors of fanfic have a much harder time avoiding the issue, seeing as they are inside the characters' heads in a way film is not. So here, it's the author who has to do the interpretation, when in film its the viewer.

I also interpret the canonical contradiction as mild homophobia - erring too far in either direction wouldn't ring true to me. Since I tend to give a bit more weight to the lack of overt homophobia than to the silence surrounding homosexuality, though, I do opt for "mild", and more blatant forms would seem jarring to me.

[extrapenguin]

I also interpret the canonical contradiction as mild homophobia - erring too far in either direction wouldn't ring true to me.
I do think it's mild rather than than hate crime misery porn homophobia, but the question is, how mild, and which would be the primary forms of it? Being passed over for promotion due to being seen as less suitable? Awkward pauses and pained expressions whenever anyone has to introduce them as a couple? Every bureaucracy being utterly baffled that they'd list each other as primary contacts and build a family together? Acquaintances frequently expressing wishes they'd find girlfriends? (I imagine at least some of this would be excacerbated by it being interspecies.) It is a delicate balance, where I want to stay within what is implied by canon and also not hit any of my own, personal issues.