![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
extrapenguinI've done all of today's IRL todo list, time to talk about Ye Zun! Spoilers through the whole TV series. I shall not touch the novel, since Ye Zun doesn't exist there.
We see him in canon, and know how he is as a villain, but I'd actually argue that all of that is a mask. We see him put on what I see as a very intentional performance of bravado and confidence. However, that's not his "true" personality, that's the metaphorical mask he wears to go with his literal one.
Much has been made about Shen Wei's mask(s), and as Shen Wei's color palette swapped identical twin and narrative foil, Ye Zun also wears a mask. We don't hear him say why he wears the mask, but given that no-one else wears one fulltime, it's no widespread Dixingian custom. At one point he mentions hating his face, because it looks so much like his brother's, but when it comes to invading Haixing, he could just as well do it without a mask and ruin Shen Wei's reputation as an aside, and yet he doesn't. I suspect his reasons for keeping on the mask are similar to what drove Shen Wei to donning his: he wants to hide his youth, inexperience, fear, and appear to be the supervillain he wants to be.
But all of that is performance. We see the metaphorical mask crack when the literal one does: the final episodes have Ye Zun descend into ranting. No-one ever asked him why he was doing what he was doing. While Zhao Yunlan reached out to young Shen Wei as Kunlun, no-one did that to Ye Zun. Combined with Ye Zun's jealous outburst in the time travel episode ("I've always put you first in my heart, gege, but in your heart, others have always come before me.") and his final conversations with Zhao Yunlan when everything is disintegrating, I find it hard to believe he's anything but how we saw him in the Ye Zun shot that comes first in the timeline: someone who's been hurt and broken and trod over by circumstances, and who's learned that people are out to get him. The manipulation is a powerless child's attempt at exerting control over his environment. We see Ye Zun as a victim of the original rebel leader; from that moment, he had perhaps a month or so* of ruling the rebels before he was stuffed into his pillar.
When gaining control of the rebels, Ye Zun learned that might makes right. Another thing he must've learned, based on his interactions with his subordinates in the present, is that people are terrible, and one must hurt them–betray them–abandon them before they hurt–betray–abandon you, because they will do it. Compare this to Shen Wei, who is mistrustful of Haixingians, and thinks e.g. the SID will hurt him, based on his valid fears and Zhao Xinci's attitude, but gets proven wrong when he lets Zhao Yunlan and the SID closer to him despite this fear, and finds that they accept him just fine. Shen Wei could do this because he set himself up to nobly suffer and be the bigger person (and because he was very thirsty for Kunlun content). Ye Zun couldn't do this, because he did not have the security and "internal power base" that would give the necessary margin for error.
In conclusion, Ye Zun as we know him is paranoid, and cruel, and above all utterly terrified of letting people close enough they could hurt him, but he still craves attachment with people, because if human is a social animal, so is a Dixingian. All the bombast is a performance where he tries to convince himself that he deserves to take up this space around him when his confidence has been abused out of him. My problem is this: what do I do with him after that moment of crisis where he discovers that his assumptions about his brother were incorrect, and our heroes can begin to unravel the lies the original rebel leader told him? Who does Ye Zun become, if given a chance to heal? The same scared child, reminiscent of Guo Changcheng, but allowed to fear and cry and be comforted? A prickly brat who pushes at every boundary to try and invoke the punishment he's familar with, because this security and love is too much, too weird for him? A slightly more apologetic and remorseful Shen Wei? I suppose it'd depend on the nature of redemption, and where it diverged from canon, but I'm lost at sea, searching for land. Thoughts are welcome.
* We see Zhao Yunlan instruct Ma Gui on wine-making, and then be present to see the results of said wine-making. (Episodes relating to the Yashou tribe leadership twig.) Fermenting baijiu takes a month or two, depending on how one does it, so we can reasonably conclude that Zhao Yunlan was in the past for at least a month.
We see him in canon, and know how he is as a villain, but I'd actually argue that all of that is a mask. We see him put on what I see as a very intentional performance of bravado and confidence. However, that's not his "true" personality, that's the metaphorical mask he wears to go with his literal one.
Much has been made about Shen Wei's mask(s), and as Shen Wei's color palette swapped identical twin and narrative foil, Ye Zun also wears a mask. We don't hear him say why he wears the mask, but given that no-one else wears one fulltime, it's no widespread Dixingian custom. At one point he mentions hating his face, because it looks so much like his brother's, but when it comes to invading Haixing, he could just as well do it without a mask and ruin Shen Wei's reputation as an aside, and yet he doesn't. I suspect his reasons for keeping on the mask are similar to what drove Shen Wei to donning his: he wants to hide his youth, inexperience, fear, and appear to be the supervillain he wants to be.
But all of that is performance. We see the metaphorical mask crack when the literal one does: the final episodes have Ye Zun descend into ranting. No-one ever asked him why he was doing what he was doing. While Zhao Yunlan reached out to young Shen Wei as Kunlun, no-one did that to Ye Zun. Combined with Ye Zun's jealous outburst in the time travel episode ("I've always put you first in my heart, gege, but in your heart, others have always come before me.") and his final conversations with Zhao Yunlan when everything is disintegrating, I find it hard to believe he's anything but how we saw him in the Ye Zun shot that comes first in the timeline: someone who's been hurt and broken and trod over by circumstances, and who's learned that people are out to get him. The manipulation is a powerless child's attempt at exerting control over his environment. We see Ye Zun as a victim of the original rebel leader; from that moment, he had perhaps a month or so* of ruling the rebels before he was stuffed into his pillar.
When gaining control of the rebels, Ye Zun learned that might makes right. Another thing he must've learned, based on his interactions with his subordinates in the present, is that people are terrible, and one must hurt them–betray them–abandon them before they hurt–betray–abandon you, because they will do it. Compare this to Shen Wei, who is mistrustful of Haixingians, and thinks e.g. the SID will hurt him, based on his valid fears and Zhao Xinci's attitude, but gets proven wrong when he lets Zhao Yunlan and the SID closer to him despite this fear, and finds that they accept him just fine. Shen Wei could do this because he set himself up to nobly suffer and be the bigger person (and because he was very thirsty for Kunlun content). Ye Zun couldn't do this, because he did not have the security and "internal power base" that would give the necessary margin for error.
In conclusion, Ye Zun as we know him is paranoid, and cruel, and above all utterly terrified of letting people close enough they could hurt him, but he still craves attachment with people, because if human is a social animal, so is a Dixingian. All the bombast is a performance where he tries to convince himself that he deserves to take up this space around him when his confidence has been abused out of him. My problem is this: what do I do with him after that moment of crisis where he discovers that his assumptions about his brother were incorrect, and our heroes can begin to unravel the lies the original rebel leader told him? Who does Ye Zun become, if given a chance to heal? The same scared child, reminiscent of Guo Changcheng, but allowed to fear and cry and be comforted? A prickly brat who pushes at every boundary to try and invoke the punishment he's familar with, because this security and love is too much, too weird for him? A slightly more apologetic and remorseful Shen Wei? I suppose it'd depend on the nature of redemption, and where it diverged from canon, but I'm lost at sea, searching for land. Thoughts are welcome.
* We see Zhao Yunlan instruct Ma Gui on wine-making, and then be present to see the results of said wine-making. (Episodes relating to the Yashou tribe leadership twig.) Fermenting baijiu takes a month or two, depending on how one does it, so we can reasonably conclude that Zhao Yunlan was in the past for at least a month.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-24 16:49 (UTC)The mask is an interesting point, and I like your take on that! That really resonates with me.
I did think he was the leader of that rebel group for longer, not just a month; I'd assumed there was a longer gap between the moment we see him kill the previous leader and the moment he gets stuffed into the pillar. But I could be wrong; I'd just assumed he'd actually got some time to be known as terrifying... The timeline of Guardian occasionally breaks my brain.
I don't think, though, that he'd turn into another Guo just because now he knows about what really happened with Shen Wei. I think there are interesting options to explore with him, but I also think that if you're used to doing things the easy way (as opposed to how Shen Wei chose to do things) and used to using POWER to do things the easy way, that would be a hard pattern to break and take some doing. (How available is therapy in the afterlife, I wonder?)
Shen Wei could do this because he set himself up to nobly suffer and be the bigger person (and because he was very thirsty for Kunlun content).
LOL. Truest words. *g*
no subject
Date: 2019-01-24 17:35 (UTC)The thing is, he kills the rebel leader the night he presents the recently-stolen hallows to him (and it's implied that this is happening at the same time Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan are having their clifftop conversation – while one brother was having a revelation that he could be a man instead of a knife, the other was having a revelation that if he was a sharp enough knife, no-one would try to punch him), after Zhao Yunlan arrives into the past to shoot at the rebel leader, and he gets pillared when Zhao Yunlan leaves, so he's the leader of the rebels for exactly as long as Zhao Yunlan stays in the past. However, I'm not sure if the authorities are that up to date on the changes in rebel leadership, and he could've always started gathering a reputation before his ascent. After all, he did steal those hallows despite having zero Dixing powers...
Oh, no, I didn't mean exactly like Guo, that's too much Guo Changcheng, but, idk, someone who cries when he's happy, because feeling okay and cared for and safe is just too much and he can't really believe it sometimes? That I could buy, even as an endpoint but certainly as a phase in his recovery. I'm mostly just trying to figure out a roadmap. I guess I'll have to write at least one fic where he gets redeemed before I can write one other idea that requires a Ye Zun who pulled himself together offscreen so the fic can concentrate on Shen Wei.
Therapy might not be available in the afterlife, but Shen Wei is there to listen to his didi, and if going canon divergence, Ye Zun could potentially be carted off to therapy. Zhao Yunlan might be a good interim bet, actually, provided that Ye Zun hasn't eaten Shen Wei yet. He can see through people's motivations and can poke and prod them excellently, and trying to fix Shen Wei's brother into not invading Haixing would be a good mixture of personal and professional motivation. With his insights into human nature, he might even be able to weed out the "I am a powerless, trapped animal" POV Ye Zun has on a lot of things, power usage included, and get him to realize that he does have that room to maneuver that power brings.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-24 18:11 (UTC)Oh your way with words!This is so perfect for these moments.
Oh I really like the idea of Zhao talking to Ye Zun out of personal and professional motivations. But you are right this only works if Ye Zun hasn#t eaten his brother yet.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-24 18:16 (UTC)Honestly, had Shen Wei told Zhao Yunlan that Ye Zun was his brother, I think Yunlan would've gone further in his attempts to talk to Ye Zun/talk Ye Zun out of it – treating Ye Zun as the awkward brother-in-law he has to live with, rather than an evil villain who is best left locked up like Dixingians intended. Alas.