Time in Dixing

[extrapenguin]

Time in Dixing: obviously, they do have time (causality works, etc), but the Regent claims they have no time in Dixing and a lot of the timeline stuff there is ... weird. So, my theory is that they do have time, but they have multiple contradictory methods of timekeeping! Perhaps one based on the lava flow, and another on algae blooming, or somesuch, and since they to their eternal regret picked things which don't actually have regular cycles, they have calendrical warfare sectarian disputes!

What about the prison sentences, you may ask? They give the terms in years; surely they have official timekeeping? No – Dixing runs on lava and melodrama, remember? The Regent simply shouts out a sentence length that sounds suitably melodramatic to his ears, then drags prisoners out as he remembers them for further torture/release/what-have-you. Someone sentenced for 1000 years might get out before the person sentenced to 100 years immediately prior. (This also explains why Chu Shuzhi only aged ~20 years during his "300"-year prison sentence whereas Zhu Jiu reacts to Sang Zan as if Dixingian lifespans are similar to humans': Chu Shuzhi was only imprisoned for ~20 years, despite the Regent yelling "300 years" at the sentencing.)

Of course, if the timekeeping is inconsistent, then did the meteor really happen 10 000 years ago? Probably not! After all, the tech level they have 10k years ago is vastly inconsistent with the tech level we actually had 10k years ago. Also, given that the number only has one significant figure (i.e. has been rounded to the nearest 10 000), we can probably safely say it's been less than 10k years; probably more on the 5-6k end*. As for Zhang Shi, well, he is lying to embellish sempai's reputation. It sounds much better if the peace Ma Gui forged lasted 10 000 years than if it lasted a paltry 4 000, no? :P

* The earliest attested sundials (shadow clocks) are c. 3500 years old, though people have likely been telling time with them before that. The earliest metal weapons were of bronze, which is attested in China from 5.1k to 4.7k years ago onward. While they do have cures available in the Alliance which were since lost, there does seem to be enough of a population to avoid total technological collapse, and it's supposed to be closeish enough to our world, so I would have the dirt nap be several thousand years shorter than the impressive and almost certainly exaggerated 10k years.

Comments

[lannamichaels]

I love the idea of opposing time measuring systems, especially as someone who glances up at the moon and goes "oh, middle of the month", while the calendar on my phone says no such thing.

I think the 10K thing was just "here's a really big round number to say it happened a while ago", so it can be 10K now and 10K three thousand years from now. Once I was having a conversation with someone and I said "potatoes last forever" and she said "do you think it'll last 3 months?" and I said "I'm not positive but I think so", because in my brain, 3 months is longer than forever. ;)

[extrapenguin]

Worldbuilding is my not-so-guilty pleasure. Multiple calendrical systems scratch an excellent itch.

I think the 10K thing was just "here's a really big round number to say it happened a while ago"
Yup! And 10k in Chinese is "one wan", so it's more along the lines of "a million" in specifity than the English-language "ten thousand".

And yes, 3 months is longer than forever.

[glymr]

Zhang Shi, being from Dixing, may not know the exact figure, either! We don't know how long he was in Haixing, but as far as we know he was brought to the surface by the Dixing person he was inhabiting. Before then he may have been stuck in the timekeeping limbo of Dixing, too.

[extrapenguin]

Zhang Shi was Ma Gui's final student and let to roam on the surface, was he not? In any case, he's had ample time to lose count of the years.

[waterscroll]

Dixing runs on lava and melodrama, remember?

Haha yeah. I love this idea, that they have no official time because they pick a number that suits whatever melodramatic point they are trying to make.

[extrapenguin]

One day, Shen Wei gets a shock when something that last week was 300 years has now become 700. Then he realizes all of Dixing's numbers are a lie and wants to rip his hair off.

[waterscroll]

...and then he gets into it and starts telling people that he's pined for Kunlun for ten thousand years because he likes how that number sounds.

[extrapenguin]

Why, of course! Depending on how wangsty he's feeling, it can be anything from years to millennia to a million billion years! It might be very unlikely that he's pined since the Hadean Era, but it sure feels like it sometimes!

[waterscroll]

Meanwhile Ye Zun has been in that pillar for ten thousand years...no, one hundred thousand...no, actually one billion...

Sometimes he gets into shouting matches with Shen Wei about how long it's actually been, because they both keep coming up with different highly melodramatic numbers.

[extrapenguin]

*nodnod* Of course, of course. Shen Wei would no doubt inform didi that no, didi cannot have been in the pillar for longer than the Universe has existed. Or they have a siblingly camaraderie and always agree on how long it's been due to their similar sense of melodrama? Hmm, so many options!

[ratbones]

Ooh, this is fun. Sudden thought: what if some years are longer than others on Haixing? Either years are just getting longer because Haixing's orbit is expanding, or there's some subtler wackiness in Haixing's stellar system. *waves hands in astrophysics*

Before the digital age, maybe this was kind of a non-issue for surface-dwellers, who just adjusted the calendar based on the stars and the seasons. In Dixing, they don't have those reference points, so, as you say, they had to rely on other things and the calendars got massively confusing. Maybe some groups are still using an antiquated year that's only a few modern months long! Of course, the Regent would deliberately encourage confusion so that it would be harder for anyone to notice/call him out on changing stuff like prison sentences at his convenience.

I haven't thought through whether this really works, I just made it up on the spot to complement your idea. :D? Personally, I like the abject weirdness of technology and culture at the time of the first war (no horses in warfare, but they spoke modern Mandarin?) for what it implies about the alienness of Haixing. I prefer not to explain it away, but...well, it's still pretty weird even if it was less than 10,000 modern years.

[extrapenguin]

Ooooo. I support any and all weird wackery! *waves hand in astrophysics* is a very good place to be. (Fic it maybe?)

Personally, I like the abject weirdness of technology and culture at the time of the first war (no horses in warfare, but they spoke modern Mandarin?) for what it implies about the alienness of Haixing. I prefer not to explain it away, but...well, it's still pretty weird even if it was less than 10,000 modern years.
I generally prefer that if a fic has modern Haixing be all modern Earth-y, then YOHE gets slotted into Earth history as much as possible for the filling in all the missing details. OTOH, if a fic's decided to go nuts and e.g. have Haixing be a ringworld (with Dixing as the basement/blister of a ship that originally brought the people there), then yeah, the YOHE stuff should also be nuts and abjectly weird!

[ratbones]

If I ever find a way to work orbital dynamics into a story I'm poking at, I absolutely will! Sigh. Maybe someday.

Yeah, I just like leaving stuff open-ended a bit, as atmospheric hints that our Earthling assumptions are wrong (which I know isn't really your thing). Not that I'd be opposed to the explicit exploration of ringworld!Haixing! That sounds awesome.

[china_shop]

Personally, I like the abject weirdness of technology and culture at the time of the first war (no horses in warfare, but they spoke modern Mandarin?)

FWIW, there are horses (and archers) in the animated prologue. Maybe the cavalry are off on a mission during the YOHE episodes?

(I like the weirdness too.)

[ratbones]

Oh, huh! You're right. Guess that one falls into a different category of weird then. (I...might let my eyes glaze over a bit every time I watch that prologue. Oop.)

[china_shop]

(Hee! Entirely fair. Perhaps the prologue is a fairytale re-telling rather than an entirely accurate version of events.)

[ratbones]

Ooh, I really like that, what with the vaguely picturebook-ish style!

[extrapenguin]

Given what Da Qing mentions about there being truth to the stories about the YOHE stuff, but them not being the truth, I always assumed the prologue, too, was a reconstruction/best-guess of what actually happened as known to Haixing!

[tinny]

Calendrical Warfare! Yes! \o/

As always, good thoughts!

[extrapenguin]

*bows*

[china_shop]

Counter-take, which I just thought of this morning (which, feel free to ignore, because it's not as fun):

Shen Wei slept through most of the 10k years, so it's not like he counted the years himself, and there weren't calendars back then (or if there were, there was a break at some point). So Shen Wei is timing the ancient war based on the most recent known major impact event, which Haixing scientists have dated at ~10k years ago. \o?

[extrapenguin]

So Shen Wei is timing the ancient war based on the most recent known major impact event, which Haixing scientists have dated at ~10k years ago. \o?
Actually, I think he's timing it based on what the Regent said, since on his very first excursion up to Haixing, he says "10k years" – well before he's had the opportunity to look at major impact event chronology.