Four Types of Novel Writers

[extrapenguin]

I watched a YouTube video by Ellen Brock that categorized authors into four types based on a plotter/pantser axis and a methodological/intuitive axis. I already knew I was a plotter, but the methodological/intuitive bit was new. Then she said something along the lines of "methodological plotters usually do their major edits before even writing the outline" and suddenly, every problem I had ever had with every editing-related advice ever ("write a crappy first draft you can then edit!" etc) made so much sense. It does not apply, because I do my major edits before even typing up the outline, and then do any remaining major edits in the outline phase! In fact, this tendency is so strong for me that I once whined to a friend about having no idea where a fic was going and typed up the outline to show this – only for the friend to go "wtf, penguin, this is fine". I just hadn't been able to do the gross edits just by juggling stuff in my head; I'd had to put stuff down as an outline to discover what I wanted to do with the fic.

Brock also has some "signs that you think you're an X but you're actually a Y" stuff in her vid. She also has a playlist with the original video plus one ~30 min video for each type of writer with more specific guidance on problems common to the type and ways to solve them. Some of the methodological plotter issues weren't my issues, while other suggestions were pretty useful and I'm going to try them out in my current WIP of doom. I also watched the intuitive plotter video out of curiosity and basically everything there had me go "wow, this is super not applicable to me/I would find this counterproductive", lol.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure some of you would find this really interesting, and for me at least it showed why a bunch of advice just doesn't apply to my way of doing things. Did you have any revelatory experiences?

(sunshine_challenge amethyst round ficlet later, perhaps tomorrow.)

Comments

[china_shop]

Ahh, thank you so much for linking this! It's very helpful. I keep making grabby hands at tools and structures and techniques, but once I have them, I often have no idea how to apply them. I want to outline more, because it really helps get things finished, but I don't actually understand story structure in a conscious, logical way. (So instead, I keep trying to feed my subconscious methodologies, hope it'll absorb and use them to direct my intuition. ;-p)

Then she said something along the lines of "methodological plotters usually do their major edits before even writing the outline" and suddenly, every problem I had ever had with every editing-related advice ever ("write a crappy first draft you can then edit!" etc) made so much sense.

Ha!

(I have outlining envy. ;-p)

Btw, trobadora and I are talking about this a bit more in the comments to my last post, because it came up. But it's mostly me going, "I don't know what I'm doing! I make it up as I go!" so I don't know how interesting it would be for you.

[extrapenguin]

Hmm, sounds like the intuitive plotter video might be targeted at you? :P The first bit was very much targeted at origfic authors/authors suffering from a failure mode generally not found in fic fandom, but it has a fair few outlining suggestions. I hope you find something useful in there. (And if you end up with more general thoughts on either the classification system in general or any of the four advice videos in particular, I'd be interested in hearing them - I know you've read up on a lot of writing advice type things and a comparison might be enlightening?)

I think most people have both plotter and pantser and intuitive and methodological tendencies, but for most, one is stronger than the other. Like, I'd say I'm 95% plotter but only about 70% methodological - I don't think I've ever felt anything but existential despair when looking at a beat sheet on high-level plot structure, frex.

Thank you for the discussion link! I'll turn up with Thoughts and an example outline in the evening when I'm on my desktop.

[china_shop]

I was put off the intuitive plotter video by all the "you need everything to be colourful and aesthetically pleasing" talk, because I'm absolutely non-visual, but I went back to it and there was some good stuff. I still think I'm a discovery writer, though. I like the idea of outlining (other people make it look so efficient!), but so far I haven't found a way to make it mesh with how I write, and definitely not in a plot-beats kind of way. I just don't think about story in those terms. I'm probably about 50-50 intuitive and methodological, which is why I don't quite fit.

I made another post about my journey through all four videos, but I haven't compared it to any of my recent adventures in writing theory (yet).

I don't think I've ever felt anything but existential despair when looking at a beat sheet on high-level plot structure, frex.

Ha! Yeah. One of the things I really appreciated in the methodological pantser video was her advice to adapt existing methodologies into something that works/resonates for you. That's now on my to-do list.

[thawrecka]

I think I've seen that video before, and even then I didn't fit any of the four types she outlines (I'm halfway between a plotter and a pantser, and can't even think how methodological and intuitive would fit with my writing practise). I'm glad it's revelatory for you, though! It's super helpful when you find something that fits with the way you actually work.

[extrapenguin]

I guess it's less relevant if you're writing shorter works/not doing propub-esque editing stuff? I too struggled a bit with methodological vs intuitive, but then that one example hit me like a truck, lol. I'll watch the other two (pantser) advice videos just in case there's something even half useful, but I think I'm like 95% plotter.

[thawrecka]

Maybe I'd be better at writing something publishable if I fit squarely into one of those four types? I'm re-editing an 180,000 word original fiction work now and it's a pain. I unfortunately both need a louse outline and to write my way in to a story and am not really sure what I'm writing until halfway through, but I suspect that if either I was just able to start without needing to know multiple later plot points, or if I was able to outline really extensively before I started, I'd be doing cleaner work. Definitely something to think about.

[extrapenguin]

As mentioned above, I think everyone has some aspects of all four types, but most people are more one than the other. (I'd say I'm 95% plotter, 70% methodological, frex.) If you're more in the middle then that just means there's more potentially relevant advice for you! :P Though it might be worth it trying both more and less outlining on intermediate-length projects and seeing what helps. Good luck with the edits!

[starandrea]

Did you have any revelatory experiences?

Yes! I didn't actually watch the introductory video, because I heard the phrase "intuitive pantser" and I was like, "That's me!" :D It was great fun to listen to the first few minutes of that video (after that I felt like it veered off into things I wasn't as interested in) because I like, "Yes! This is why all of china_shop's links about 'how to write' (super interesting, of course!) are so foreign to me!" Ugh, all that planning and analyzing sounds like work; I'd rather be writing! :) And this "intuitive pantsing" resonated with me in three immediate ways: 1) planning absolutely kills all my enthusiasm (although I am willing to brainstorm!) because once I know what happens, why bother to write it? 2) discovery writer all the way! I have to write to find out what happens! and 3) collections of inspiration instead of outlines are SO my thing, from playlists to collages, I like things that get me thinking about how what I'm writing makes me feel and what interests me about it (in terms of the world and the relationships and what they say about the meaning of existence) and that's what makes me want to write. Thanks! ♥ These were fun ideas to hear more about!

[extrapenguin]

Ha! Yeah, sometimes it's obvious where one belongs. I'm glad you got something useful out of it!

[ratbones]

Oh, huh. Interesting, thanks for posting this. I feel like I'm so intuitive I get a little frustrated trying to figure out if I'm a plotter or a panster. lol. Okay, based on her description I guess "intuitive plotter" is the closest one? Having Eureka Moments while coming up with plot is something I relate to a lot. It's like my favorite writing thing. (Argument against me being a full-on plotter: a good chunk of those flashes of apparent brilliance come from filling in the many plot holes in my outline when I'm already tens of thousands of words in. Wheeee!)

You are ABSOLUTELY a methodological plotter, that makes so much sense. That's why you're so damn efficient!

[extrapenguin]

Glad you found it interesting! I, too, had a bit of a dilemma at the start over whether I was intuitive or methodological just based on the descriptions (I know myself to be very much a plotter), but then one of her examples was thankfully Extremely Me. I think everyone has both plotter/pantser and intuitive/methodological tendencies, but for most people one is dominant over the other, so idk. I hope you found some useful advice in there! I know I did.

[nnozomi]

Late to comment but this is really interesting, thank you! I haven't properly watched the videos, just read you and china_shop talking about them, but I think I might need to look into the "intuitive plotter" one. (What is it called if your method of solving really hard plot issues is "write each bit down on a piece of paper and make a jigsaw puzzle with them in an order that makes more sense"?). Appreciated!

[extrapenguin]

I think that's one of the methods suggested, actually! Some of the solutions are for issues you/fanfic might not have, but hopefully you can find something interesting or useful therein.