Guardian the novel

[extrapenguin]

I read it today and yesterday, all 106 chapters, and ... idk. I guess I'm suffering from hype backlash?

I got into the Guardian (TV) fandom back in the autumn of 2018, when the prevailing mood was that the drama sucked and was the worst and the novel was much better. I disagreed with the criticism leveled at the drama, and didn't really think much about the novel, save that the translation available then was unreadable for me.

Fastforward to now. I decided to read through the novel, since an edited version was available, if only for the sake of the character discussion posts and a novel dramatis personae. It was engaging, and the edited translation readable; it's just that it ... well. I keep thinking about the late 2018/early 2019 criticisms of the drama, and can't help finding them even more unfair since they're comparing the drama to this.

All of my favorite scenes from the drama are drama-original. The novel is quite honestly terrible at foreshadowing (I went in spoiled for a number of things but saw not even any only-foreshadowing-in-retrospect stuff) and the vast majority of scenes were at the wrong level of internality to actually stir up any emotions. (Some of this might be the translation, but then again, one of the author's subsequent works is much better in both respects despite having a worse translation.) My end verdict is that it's a solidly executed Junior Gets Educated By Senior, Forms Attachment, Tops Senior BL novel with a cool yet underexplored twist on traditional Chinese mythology. Shen Wei especially felt like I'd read 15 iterations of him already back in my early 2018 binge of translated cnovels. This is fine if you're into those tropes, but I guess I was at least subconsciously expecting something more transcendent after all that comparison bullshit and hype.

Comments

[riventhorn]

I only read a few parts of the novel and then decided it was Not For Me. But based on that, I agree that the criticism of the drama was excessive.

[extrapenguin]

Yeah, it was. Though even just based on the drama, the criticism was excessive/inaccurate, since a bunch of it was "they never resolved this plot point!" ... for plot points that were explicitly resolved in-show.

[china_shop]

I haven't heard anything about the novel that's made me want to read it, and I appreciate this confirmation of my biases. ;-)

[extrapenguin]

As far as cnovels go, I'd rec it to someone whose request fit, since the edited translation is at the top end of cnovel translation readability and the more annoying yaoi tropes aren't too present, but ... yeah. Definitely does not live up to the hype 2018 Guardian fandom gave it. :P

(I'll post the character list to sid_guardian later today my time.)

[glymr]

I still see people explicitly reccing the novel over the drama, and it's almost always because "the novel is better because it has a happy ending". Which I find interesting for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that I found the ending of the drama more "bittersweet but hopeful" than "tragic". But this may be culturally influenced - I tried to explain to one fan on twitter once why I didn't think the ending was sad, and she told me that I was "very optimistic, lol". On the other hand, a room full of American and Canadian fans universally agreed that the ending was "hopeful" when I asked them. So... *shrugs*

[extrapenguin]

Which I find interesting for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that I found the ending of the drama more "bittersweet but hopeful" than "tragic".
Yeah. I do give people the caveat of (most recently) the two leads do technically die, but given the in-universe worldbuilding and the final scene, it's more open-ended than a classical Bad End would be, since people can be sensitive to that stuff but if I just say Bad End, I imagine something like the villain winning/rocks fall everyone dies. They succeed in defeating Ye Zun! It's not a tragic ending! ... I wonder if it's you and me considering the drama as a whole (bittersweet, due to the heroic sacrifices needed for success, but hopeful due to the world continuing in peace) and other people only considering the weilan relationship (dead). (Nonetheless, the novel ending is happier, even if it felt like a giant ass pull due to the lack of foreshadowing.)

The one culturally influenced take on why the drama ending is bad I've seen is that because Shen Wei has no soul, he will die forever and not be reincarnated so they'll be parted forever, but that's 100% novel-influenced; I'm pretty sure the show's official line is that souls don't exist at all, and if they do, well, Shen Wei specifically mentions having one in episode 38. I suppose the big thing is that the ending is open enough people can project all their worldbuilding preferences onto it and get vastly different endpoints?

[glymr]

What I've gleaned from Chinese and Chinese-influenced fans is that the ending is intended to be read as: Shen Wei goes back into the cycle of reincarnation but Zhao Yunlan's soul is permanently trapped in the lantern, thus separating them forever. Which is very sad and tragic if one buys into it, but I just can't. As I tried to explain to my friend on Twitter, the world itself is in flux. There are new technologies being invented all the time. There are people with new Dixing powers being born all the time. I simply could not see the SID just leaving Zhao Yunlan to suffer indefinitely without trying to find a way to rescue him. And as for Shen Wei, we saw Ge Lan and Sang Zan come back as energy beings, and Ye Zun was stabbed by the Awl. But even if they don't get their happy ending in this lifetime, I don't see why they couldn't at some point, particularly given everything we know about the world they live in. If there's one thing the show taught us, it was that even if bad situations last a very long time (10,000 years, even) NOTHING lasts forever.

[extrapenguin]

My big problem with that interpretation is that it's a sudden genre shift from science fiction to fantasy, and introduces stuff like reincarnation, which hasn't been mentioned before. It's like someone telling me that the ending is actually a slice of life idol drama centered on puppy raising, and that's the definitive and only way to interpret the ending.

Even assuming Shen Wei goes to a cycle of reincarnation, well, we know the wicks don't last forever. Zhao Yunlan can serve his 10k years and then be freed into death and reincarnation and people who like reincarnation can cheer at the reincarnation romance. (My opinion is that reincarnations are different people to the originals, so I never got the appeal. *g*) Add to that the stuff of the SID wanting to rescue him, and Shen Wei seemingly being caught in some sort of Hallows effect, and we get a whole lot of possible endings I could very easily buy. Like Shen Wei also ending up in the Lantern, so they can play house together forever! Or both of them being dumped out of the Lantern like novel Shen Wei. All of that takes just as much, if not less, explanation than the reincarnation tragedy searching. So while people are free to interpret it that way, I am supremely annoyed if someone tries to push the Maximum Angst interpretation as the only correct one.

(I wonder how much of it is also the Chinese storytelling tradition having a Thing for tragic endings, so having a tragic ending is much more normalized for TV shows and when given a non-happy ending, people to to the tragedy model of romance and slot the ending in there? IDK.)

[mekare]

Interesting! I too remember the rampant criticism pf the drama (which i subsequently avoided like hell).


I wonder if my experience would be the same with the Nirvana in Fire novel (which has also been translated), though it is different in that everyone I‘ve read loves BOTH canons.

[extrapenguin]

I wonder if my experience would be the same with the Nirvana in Fire novel (which has also been translated), though it is different in that everyone I‘ve read loves BOTH canons.
The NIF drama is a much closer adaptation of the novel, so it makes sense people who like one would like the other. IIRC the main differences are minor timeline details (Jingyan being two years older than Lin Shu, rather than the same age), character descriptions, and Mu Nihuang having a non-Lin Shu love interest who was cut from the drama.

[tinny]

I... still haven't read the whole thing, but... yeah. I see your point.

I find the drama far from perfect, but none of that has to do with how closely they stuck to the novel or not. I can't say anything about the novel, because I haven't finished it yet.

When it comes to the tone of it, *a lot* got lost through rainbowse7en's lackluster translation. It is getting better now, but that doesn't help the plot any. Ah well, I'll see it when I get there.

Until then, I'll just cherrypick what I like, as I always do, and ignore the rest.

[extrapenguin]

I mean, nothing's perfect? And ime a lot of the more impassioned defenses of the drama are in direct reaction to the whole "lol the drama sux, unlike the novel, which is perf" attitude.

When it comes to the tone of it, *a lot* got lost through rainbowse7en's lackluster translation. It is getting better now, but that doesn't help the plot any. Ah well, I'll see it when I get there.
I read up to ch90 from your edited gdocs, and then from thereon with ineffablebfs's translation, so not the unedited rainbowse7en one? But even discounting translation problems, there was a lot of stuff that just fell flat, since I read a (grammatically) worse translation of one of the author's subsequent works, and that managed to actually induce emotions in me and foreshadow stuff.

(Also, the novel isn't science fiction, so in the contest for my affections, it automatically loses. :P)