Shen Wei and identity – speculation

[extrapenguin]

(Fopinions February starts in a few days!)

Since I talked about Ye Zun, I will briefly talk about Shen Wei. Today's post inspired by naye's With a Twist of the Kaleidoscope, more specifically this bit:

“Didn’t my dear brother tell you? We’re twins. There’s only our face,” Ye Zun says.

Later hashed out with chromemuffin. Please excuse any incoherence, I am running on way too little sleep today.

One interestingly canon-compliant reading of Shen Wei is that from a young age, he didn't build his identity so much as being an individual, but as being one half of a whole. First with Ye Zun, and then I suspect this is part of why he fell so hard for Kunlun: someone who's engaging with him in much the same fashion his brother did, plonking into Shen Wei's life like he's meant to be there and knowing way too much about Shen Wei and his preferences already. (What Zhao Yunlan did would likely inspire paranoia under other circumstances.)

So. We have Shen Wei, who has a binary division of people: there is the singular other locus of his universe, his other half, the one without whom he isn't – and then there's other people. His parents died when he was young, so it was just him and Ye Zun, and he didn't get any healthy models for being anything but one half of a whole, and so a lot of his ... tolerance of Zhao Yunlan's WTF behavior (like the cake stealing) is more explicable: Zhao Yunlan is the other half of his universe, so of course he wouldn't just draw boundaries with Zhao Yunlan unless it's absolutely necessary for the continuity of the timeline.

Of course, the interesting thing would be to get Ye Zun and Zhao Yunlan into Shen Wei's life simultaneously, whether via Ye Zun redemption arc or otherwise, so he has to figure out how to deal with the Shen Wei-Ye Zun creepy twins universe and the Shen Wei-Zhao Yunlan romantic ecosystem both being valid at the same time, and actually figure out how to untangle himself from this all-subsuming "one half of a whole" worldview and figure out what sort of relationship he wants Zhao Yunlan and Ye Zun to have. (Even if it's "We are twins and share everything, if I am your wife then please take Ye Zun as your concubine." Perhaps especially in that case.)

There's more to Shen Wei's character (the reason he's so much into his job and requires the "you're a man, not a knife" speeches is likely because his sense of self-worth went down the drain after he couldn't protect his brother and he went to protect the entire world and take down the rebels in his brother's memory, for one), but given that Ye Zun has a "you are the only one in my heart, gege" thing going on, Shen Wei likely has something equivalent from their childhood.

Comments

[trobadora]

One interestingly canon-compliant reading of Shen Wei is that from a young age, he didn't build his identity so much as being an individual, but as being one half of a whole.

Huh, interesting! That's not how I see Shen Wei at all? Not at any point in his life. I see him as a very self-contained person - Ye Zun is totally aboard the codependent train, but Shen Wei isn't boarding it.

As a child, Shen Wei was his brother's protector, and that was definitely a fundamental part of his identity - but I think it's the being a protector part in general far more than focusing it on one single person who is his other half. That's also, in my eyes, why he gets so absorbed in his role as the Envoy and loses himself in it. It's not just low self-worth, but also simply one part of who he fundamentally is, taking over the entire self with nothing to counterbalance it. Shen Wei always tries to protect everyone; he spreads himself thin that way, until there's nothing left just for himself.

That's what Zhao Yunlan offers and gives him, I'd argue - the just-for-himself part, without getting in the way of his protector identity, because ZYL understands and respects and supports that part, too.

Just my thoughts ...

[extrapenguin]

This is admittedly more on the "potentially cool characterization take" end of the scale than the "totally canon" end. I apologize if that didn't come through in the post. (And I think I am too sleep deprived atm to think coherently.) But! The cool thing is that what you (and most reasonable people, let's be real) read as Shen Wei being a responsible protector type who likes protecting things can also be used to justify Shen Wei having gone a few stops down the codependency train. (Ye Zun is staying on to the bitter end.)

However, I do think that Shen Wei has a guilt complex (even if it's very buried) over failing at protecting his brother, and that informs a lot of the decisions he makes. Zhao Yunlan is the first person to get close enough to that complex to try and poke at it, but he doesn't really have the time to untangle it all.

I should probably go to sleep at this point...

[trobadora]

Sorry! I didn't mean to rain on your parade.

I do think that Shen Wei has a guilt complex (even if it's very buried) over failing at protecting his brother, and that informs a lot of the decisions he makes

Oh yes, I completely agree with that! I think that's always true, regardless of how you otherwise interpret him. I'm pretty sure a version of Shen Wei who doesn't feel guilty about that is not a version I'd recognise.

[extrapenguin]

Ehh it's OK, I should've made it clearer in the OP that this is more interesting speculation than (what I believe to be) The Definitive Take!

Shen Wei is such a fascinating character. I should make a more all-encompassing meta post on him, but I'd have to rewatch the entire show, and he's very ... opaque in some regards. Though the guilt and lack of self-esteem shine through.

[naye]

First of all - I love this. Like. A lot. It makes perfect sense to me, that Shen Wei was already used to having another person be his other half? And he's someone who struggles with even being a person, much less being a person with needs and preferences and like you say: boundaries. (Oh, Shen Wei.)

Second - ahhhh I can't believe you were so inspired by that line?! But I am really glad you were, because I loved reading this!

[extrapenguin]

And he's someone who struggles with even being a person, much less being a person with needs and preferences and like you say: boundaries.
Yes, this! Zhao Yunlan tries to raise Shen Wei's self-esteem, but he never quite manages before the ending. (Though I'd argue the ending is one part Shen Wei's crap self-esteem meaning he's all for sacrificing himself, and one part something related to Ye Zun – either "If I have to be part in killing my brother, I'd rather not live" or "The only one who can kill my brother is me" or something else along those lines.)

The line was very nice in context, and when I was examining a Ye Zun redemption idea I realized Ye Zun would immediately go back into codependent twins time of "there is only our face"! And then I realized Shen Wei ... might not discourage him, because yay he got his didi back, and what if Shen Wei also has similar issues? (Imagine Zhao Yunlan's face when he realizes he's the sanest member of the relationship...) One could have a field day with a Shen Wei who considered first Ye Zun and then Zhao Yunlan/Kunlun the center of his universe trying to puzzle out Zhao Yunlan's questions of "So how should I deal with your brother?" since to Shen Wei, that'd sound like the South Pole asking the North Pole how it'd like for the South Pole to handle the South Pole. All the other fallout of suddenly having two people in the slot of Most Important Person would be very good, too.

[naye]

(Though I'd argue the ending is one part Shen Wei's crap self-esteem meaning he's all for sacrificing himself, and one part something related to Ye Zun – either "If I have to be part in killing my brother, I'd rather not live" or "The only one who can kill my brother is me" or something else along those lines.)
The responsibility he feels toward Ye Zun is definitely a factor in the choices he makes all along, I'd say. Because - yeah, there's a lot to unpack there.

Imagine Zhao Yunlan's face when he realizes he's the sanest member of the relationship...
HAH. That is quite the picture.

One could have a field day with a Shen Wei who considered first Ye Zun and then Zhao Yunlan/Kunlun the center of his universe trying to puzzle out Zhao Yunlan's questions of "So how should I deal with your brother?"
Oh yes, that is a really good one...! Just. Lots of confused blinking. Does. Not. Compute?? There's absolutely no precedence for anything like it, so. Yeah.

[extrapenguin]

The responsibility he feels toward Ye Zun is definitely a factor in the choices he makes all along, I'd say. Because - yeah, there's a lot to unpack there.
Yes!!! And I'd love to read fic that unpacked it. Since, well, a lot of time, people brush over that, because they want to write their OTP and it's easier to just brush over Ye Zun, since Shen Wei already has a lot of Issues, which, fair, but not my ideal fic.

(Oh no, when did Ye Zun become my favorite character???)

Oh Shen Wei, how bad you are at being a human...

[starandrea]

This is so interesting! I really enjoyed reading it, and it gave me a new (and as you say, completely canon-compatible) way of considering Shen Wei's character.

For me it also puts words to some of my curiosity about a universe where Shen Wei has both Ye Zun and Zhao Yunlan - I am now even more intrigued by the social ramifications of this in his life! ♥

[extrapenguin]

Yay! As I said to trobadora, it's definitely not the #1 gospel truth interpretation of Shen Wei, but it's within the possibility space of Shen Wei (even if it's sort of at the edge). A nice idea to play with at the very least!

This is actually an interpretation that only interests me when Ye Zun is also in the picture – without him, it's not nearly as hilarious, and Shen Wei has a bunch of other issues that Zhao Yunlan/Shen Wei content can work with. Universes in which Shen Wei has his brother and lover both are definitely ones I am very interested in.

[lynndyre]

I feel like I'm still trying to get a real handle on Shen Wei, but I love how completely differently he relates to ZYL than anyone else - that bit in 16 when he says "I can't tell if we're doing the right thing or not" and ZYL says "Let's just do it then!" And Shen Wei just does it. Full steam ahead.

[extrapenguin]

Shen Wei is definitely a hard character to grasp fully! I'd have to do a rewatch while taking notes. It's especially hard since we get a lot of Shen Wei at the start, but we only get the context in the final quarter of the series...

It really is obvious how he's willing to, uh, let Zhao Yunlan make decisions on his behalf (as long as they don't put Zhao Yunlan himself in jeopardy). He really did imprint on Zhao Yunlan as Kunlun the war hero, and hasn't necessarily updated his mental perception, even if he is slightly better about being his own person vs starstruck Kunlun fanboy, now.

[china_shop]

Ha, I think that's totally how Ye Zun thinks of Shen Wei, but... it's kind of the opposite of how I see him?

Like, Shen Wei wants ZYL close, but he also finds it very hard to let him in, does all his strategising/decision-making without consulting or confiding in ZYL, and ultimately sacrifices himself for the world *despite* ZYL (despite losing him, AND despite hurting him by doing it). ZYL is his partner, but more in a sustenance-along-the-way than a goal/end-of-the-journey, imo.

Also, Shen Wei's alone in Haixing for at least 10 years. If he was that codependent, wouldn't he have found someone else to glom onto?

I totally agree that ZYL and Shen Wei's boundaries are a giant tangle of string, though. :-)

[extrapenguin]

As I said, this is more of an interesting potential interpretation than the One True Reading! It's also more of a way of looking at baby Shen Wei; when he's an adult, he's had another few years' practice of operating independently. What with the added pressure of realizing that the reason Zhao Yunlan was in the past was most likely time travel, he's now torn between the urge to get closer to Zhao Yunlan and knowing that he can't upset the timeline lest the time travel never happen, so there's a lot going on. (He also seemed to have some sort of visions while healing Zhao Yunlan's eyesight, giving him some sort of plan for the future which he used to take down Ye Zun. IDK what he saw at the end to make him choose this path – Zhao Yunlan alive, certainly, and maybe that he and Ye Zun had reconciled?)

[china_shop]

He also seemed to have some sort of visions while healing Zhao Yunlan's eyesight

Huh, I didn't get that impression. The Longevity Dial doesn't give anyone else visions (all the other visions are from the Awl or from travelling to Dixing, iirc). And I thought Shen Wei started planning much earlier, which was why when he was explaining his powers to ZYL in ep 15, he thought to himself, "However, being powerful should pay the price." Even then, he'd already decided to sacrifice himself.

[extrapenguin]

There are other valid interpretations (oh, Shen Wei, you'd require a rewatch with notes), but given his expression just after he fixes Zhao Yunlan's eyesight, it's very possible! (More probable than codependent Shen Wei, too.) I didn't read that exchange in episode 15 as him deciding on sacrificing himself, instead more metaphorically as sacrificing his time and energy and pleasures on the altar of saving the world.